The Mystery of Col. Richard Payne (?) of Gunley Hall
Patrick Payne and others doing research on colonial Paynes have occasionally posted concerning the marriage of Rosamund Saltonstall to a Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall, Montgomeryshire, Wales. Rosamund Saltonstall was a daughter of Richard Saltonstall, who came to New England with his family in about 1630, but he returned to England with Rosamund and certain others in his family shortly afterward. A Captain Charles Saltonstall is also associated with seafaring Paynes in the London/Stepney area who were visiting and trading in America in the mid- and later-1600s. This Saltonstall family, going back a couple of generations to Sir Peter and his father, Sir Richard Saltonstall, was heavily involved in colonial and overseas trade. Captain Charles Saltonstall appears to have been the son of a brother of Sir Peter Saltonstall (Sir Samuel Saltonstall), and a cousin of the Richard Saltonstall whose daughter was Rosamund (who supposedly married Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall). This would have been another Saltonstall linkage within the Payne trading network that Patrick has often described; however, something was wrong and/or confusing as I tried to collect more info about a Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall.
Yes, on many internet sites, the marriage of Rosamund Saltonstall to Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall, Montgomeryshire is cited. Gunley Hall, by the way, is an interesting spot. It's located right on the border between Montgomeryshire, Wales and Shropshire, England (where many Paynes resided then, earlier, and later). Looking through internet sites and books on Shropshire Paynes still didn't help me find candidates who might have been this Col.Richard Payne (who married Rosamund Saltonstall). Such lack of success is nothing new for me, and seems about 99.9% of my efforts on colonial Paynes. Now, though, I think I understand why I've had no success in the recent and distant past with this particular Col. Richard Payne. I now don’t believe that Rosamund Saltonstall married Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall; instead,she married Col. Richard Pryce/Price of that place. The Pryces had long been associated with Gunley, Montgomeryshire, and internet sites from several different books [including 1) The Parliamentary History of the Principality of Wales and 2) The Founders: Portraits of Persons Born Abroad Who Came to the Colonies in North America] clearly indicate a Col. Richard Pryce of Gunley married Rosamund Saltonstall. This Richard Pryce was the son of Edward Pryce of Gunley, and he supported and fought for the Parliamentary forces against the Royalty in the Civil War. He was high sheriff of Montgomeryshire in 1651, and a warrant for his arrest occurred in 1665 during the Restoration period. He was widowed when he married Rosamund Saltonstall (who was about the age of 33) in the mid-1640s. A copy of Rosamund's portrait can be found in the Google Book preview for The Founders (p. 811).
Patrick Payne's posts and other sites seem influenced by Robert Charles Anderson’s, The Great Migration Begins, Immigrants to New England 1620-1633, from the New England Historic Genealogical Society (which mentions this Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall). Perhaps Anderson made a copying/transcription error in his work in the 1990s from earlier sources. The other explanation for this discrepancy might be Col. Richard Pryce having had a Payne alias or he had a Payne background. I’ve explored that possibility a bit, and I can find at least a slight Pryce/Payne relationship. Apparently Col. Richard Pryce had no children by his first wife or by Rosamund Saltonstall (1612-1695) and left his Gunley estate to his nephew, Edmund, who was a son of his younger brother Edward. Edmund Pryce’s wife was Catherine Tanat and his mother-in-law was Jane Payne Tanat (who died in about 1682). Catherine Tanat also had a sister Jane Tanat who married a John Payne of Argoed, Shropshire. I doubt these Payne relationships with the nephew of Col. Richard Pryce really solve the mystery of why a Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall is often found in references, instead of the surname Pryce, but I hope it can help a few others who have been or would be frustrated in finding more about this particular Payne.
Patrick Payne and others doing research on colonial Paynes have occasionally posted concerning the marriage of Rosamund Saltonstall to a Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall, Montgomeryshire, Wales. Rosamund Saltonstall was a daughter of Richard Saltonstall, who came to New England with his family in about 1630, but he returned to England with Rosamund and certain others in his family shortly afterward. A Captain Charles Saltonstall is also associated with seafaring Paynes in the London/Stepney area who were visiting and trading in America in the mid- and later-1600s. This Saltonstall family, going back a couple of generations to Sir Peter and his father, Sir Richard Saltonstall, was heavily involved in colonial and overseas trade. Captain Charles Saltonstall appears to have been the son of a brother of Sir Peter Saltonstall (Sir Samuel Saltonstall), and a cousin of the Richard Saltonstall whose daughter was Rosamund (who supposedly married Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall). This would have been another Saltonstall linkage within the Payne trading network that Patrick has often described; however, something was wrong and/or confusing as I tried to collect more info about a Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall.
Yes, on many internet sites, the marriage of Rosamund Saltonstall to Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall, Montgomeryshire is cited. Gunley Hall, by the way, is an interesting spot. It's located right on the border between Montgomeryshire, Wales and Shropshire, England (where many Paynes resided then, earlier, and later). Looking through internet sites and books on Shropshire Paynes still didn't help me find candidates who might have been this Col.Richard Payne (who married Rosamund Saltonstall). Such lack of success is nothing new for me, and seems about 99.9% of my efforts on colonial Paynes. Now, though, I think I understand why I've had no success in the recent and distant past with this particular Col. Richard Payne. I now don’t believe that Rosamund Saltonstall married Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall; instead,she married Col. Richard Pryce/Price of that place. The Pryces had long been associated with Gunley, Montgomeryshire, and internet sites from several different books [including 1) The Parliamentary History of the Principality of Wales and 2) The Founders: Portraits of Persons Born Abroad Who Came to the Colonies in North America] clearly indicate a Col. Richard Pryce of Gunley married Rosamund Saltonstall. This Richard Pryce was the son of Edward Pryce of Gunley, and he supported and fought for the Parliamentary forces against the Royalty in the Civil War. He was high sheriff of Montgomeryshire in 1651, and a warrant for his arrest occurred in 1665 during the Restoration period. He was widowed when he married Rosamund Saltonstall (who was about the age of 33) in the mid-1640s. A copy of Rosamund's portrait can be found in the Google Book preview for The Founders (p. 811).
Patrick Payne's posts and other sites seem influenced by Robert Charles Anderson’s, The Great Migration Begins, Immigrants to New England 1620-1633, from the New England Historic Genealogical Society (which mentions this Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall). Perhaps Anderson made a copying/transcription error in his work in the 1990s from earlier sources. The other explanation for this discrepancy might be Col. Richard Pryce having had a Payne alias or he had a Payne background. I’ve explored that possibility a bit, and I can find at least a slight Pryce/Payne relationship. Apparently Col. Richard Pryce had no children by his first wife or by Rosamund Saltonstall (1612-1695) and left his Gunley estate to his nephew, Edmund, who was a son of his younger brother Edward. Edmund Pryce’s wife was Catherine Tanat and his mother-in-law was Jane Payne Tanat (who died in about 1682). Catherine Tanat also had a sister Jane Tanat who married a John Payne of Argoed, Shropshire. I doubt these Payne relationships with the nephew of Col. Richard Pryce really solve the mystery of why a Col. Richard Payne of Gunley Hall is often found in references, instead of the surname Pryce, but I hope it can help a few others who have been or would be frustrated in finding more about this particular Payne.
posted by Steve | 9:35 PM
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