Paynes, Payns, and Fitzpayns
A group of Calloway/Kellowey researchers has been working together for years and putting their speculations and conclusions concerning early Callloways/Kelloweys in England on their web sites. From working notes that one of them (Dr. Sylvia Warham) shared with me recently, these seem to indicate that the FitzPayns of Somerset and the Hutton Paynes (who I have been studying) were branches of the same family that split sometime in the later 1300s. If so, and I haven't seen enough evidence yet to be certain myself of this immediate family connection, the Hutton Paynes are closely related to even other wealthy Payne families elsewhere in England (who were related to the FitzPayns). Sir Robert Fitzpayn (1st Baron) served both Kings Edward I and II on the battlefield and held key positions for Edward II, including being his steward of the household and personal representative in a mission to confer with the Pope. Sometimes referred to in records as "Robert son of Payn," this Sir Robert Fitzpayn and his son Robert (2nd Baron) held considerable land in Devon, Dorset, Wilts, Gloucester, and Somerset.
Interesting also from research of the Calloways/Kelloweys, I can infer an apparent link between the Huntingdon Paynes and the Hutton Paynes. The father of Sir Robert Payne of Medloe held that manor and land after a Calloway/Kellawey gentleman (the second of the Sir William Kellaweys), whose grandfather and aunt had both apparently married Hutton Paynes.
The Calloway/Kelloway researchers present a useful model for cooperative work among many committed individuals in sharing their emerging speculations and conclusions. Their specific inputs concerning early Paynes, Payns, and Fitzpayns offer potentials related to my own goals in this blog and will demand much time for me to study and to try to expand upon or question.
A group of Calloway/Kellowey researchers has been working together for years and putting their speculations and conclusions concerning early Callloways/Kelloweys in England on their web sites. From working notes that one of them (Dr. Sylvia Warham) shared with me recently, these seem to indicate that the FitzPayns of Somerset and the Hutton Paynes (who I have been studying) were branches of the same family that split sometime in the later 1300s. If so, and I haven't seen enough evidence yet to be certain myself of this immediate family connection, the Hutton Paynes are closely related to even other wealthy Payne families elsewhere in England (who were related to the FitzPayns). Sir Robert Fitzpayn (1st Baron) served both Kings Edward I and II on the battlefield and held key positions for Edward II, including being his steward of the household and personal representative in a mission to confer with the Pope. Sometimes referred to in records as "Robert son of Payn," this Sir Robert Fitzpayn and his son Robert (2nd Baron) held considerable land in Devon, Dorset, Wilts, Gloucester, and Somerset.
Interesting also from research of the Calloways/Kelloweys, I can infer an apparent link between the Huntingdon Paynes and the Hutton Paynes. The father of Sir Robert Payne of Medloe held that manor and land after a Calloway/Kellawey gentleman (the second of the Sir William Kellaweys), whose grandfather and aunt had both apparently married Hutton Paynes.
The Calloway/Kelloway researchers present a useful model for cooperative work among many committed individuals in sharing their emerging speculations and conclusions. Their specific inputs concerning early Paynes, Payns, and Fitzpayns offer potentials related to my own goals in this blog and will demand much time for me to study and to try to expand upon or question.
posted by Steve | 8:35 PM
2 Comments:
Steve
In your 20 Sep 2010 Blog you mention a Thomas Payne who married Margaret Wheatley. You said he is not the member of the Middle Temple, but rather a Thomas Payne who married a Matilda is. I think I have proof otherwise. You can contact me at rpaynegen at yahoo dot com.
Dick Payne
Thanks for this response, Dick.
Among a lot of other recent areas of Payne research, I've been working at times on this particular line. When I noticed this Thomas Payne of Petworth (who married into the influntial Vernon family and seem to have had a son Orlando who came to America in the early 1700s), I suggested that he apparently was a different Thomas Payne of Petworth from the one who married Margaret Wheatley (or his father Thomas who married Elizabeth Walker). This one was a Middle Temple attorney with connections to powerful merchants and government officials. I said on the blog page that this "Thomas Payne from Petworth who married Matilda Vernon had a father, also named Thomas, who was a Middle Temple attorney along with his colleagues, Sir Thomas Barnard and Sir Henry Peckham, who also owned land and manors in that area." I didn't state on the blog page that the Thomas Payne who married Margaret Wheatley was not a member of the Middle Temple, but I wasn't that sure then that that the father of Thomas Payne who married Matilda Vernon was the Thomas Payne who married Margaret Wheatley. The evidence over the last year gradually led me to assume that connection, but I hadn't posted it yet on this blog site or to the Payne-L Rootsweb list. It's been a while now since I've posted at all on this blog site and probably should do so. Although you didn't directly state this, perhaps you also believe that particular father-son connection to be the case. Patrick Payne hadn't made this linkage in his 2004 Power Point presentation, and I don't believe that he has on the Payne-L list either.
Wish I were able to find more info about this Petworth line. This line (such as some others in England, especially in the West Country) seems important for clarifying more American immigrant Paynes, but much more work is needed. I did develop one apparent (if somewhat distant) linkage of these Petworth Paynes to another and later group of Paynes in England. That linkage involves the father (Anthony Walker, Clerk of the Wardrobe of the Queen) of the wife of the first Thomas Payne of Petworth. Following this Walker line into the early 1700s, you seem to find a John Walker (Chief Usher of the Exchequer) who in 1729 married Dionysia Colebrooke. Her sister (and another daughter of the wealthy James Colebrooke) married William Payne (King) of Fineshade who was an executor of the John Payne (d. 1750) who owned land in South Carolina and apparently lived in Winterbourne, Gloucestershire.
Glad to see that someone is staying up with some of this English Payne research and checking it for errors, omissions, etc. Thanks again.
Steve
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